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From: ghudson@mit.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 22:52:17 -0500
To: rt@krbdev.mit.edu
Subject: NegoEx
draft-zhu-negoex describes the NegoEx protocol.  I am attaching a conversation with Microsoft dochelp where some of the protocol details are clarified.

In this conversation, it appears to be stated that endpoints will continue sending a VERIFY message along with each AP_REQUEST or CHALLENGE, but empirically this does not seem to be the case, so our implementation will stop at one VERIFY message from each endpoint under normal circumstances.
 
Subject: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Sreekanth Nadendla <srenaden@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-04 2321.eml
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From: Sreekanth Nadendla <srenaden@microsoft.com>
To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
CC: "lukeh@padl.com" <lukeh@padl.com>, support
<support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
Subject: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
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Dochelp in Bcc
Casemail in Cc

Hi Greg,
Thank you for your inquiry about Microsoft Open Specifications. We have cre=
ated an incident for investigating this issue. One of the Open specificatio=
ns team member will contact you shortly.

Regards,
Sreekanth Nadendla
Microsoft Windows Open Specifications

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>=20
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:18 PM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help <dochelp@microsoft.com>
Cc: lukeh@padl.com
Subject: NegoEx alerts

Is there any Microsoft documentation of NegoEx, apart from
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i=
etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zhu-negoex-04&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Csrenaden%40micros=
oft.com%7Cf82adc0b8f1a49a0486708d7493a4df5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db=
47%7C1%7C0%7C637058387075198756&amp;sdata=3DPJgjKyGtWSyO%2BYhcqFQzab%2BQjBM=
J3ZeACRMjeNsmWWY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0 ?

In that document, there are several definitions related to "alerts":

* MESSAGE_TYPE_ALERT in the MESSAGE_TYPE enumeration
* The ALERT structure
* The ALERT_TYPE_PULSE define
* The ALERT_VERIFY_NO_KEY define
* The ALERT_PULSE structure
* The ALERT_VECTOR structure
* The ALERT_MESSAGE structure

However, those definitions aren't used anywhere in the narrative text of th=
e document; there are no references to "alert", "pulse", or "verify_no_key"=
outside of the definitions. Does Microsoft's NegoEx implementation make a=
ny use of alerts, or are those definitions vestigial?

Thanks.
Subject: NegoEx alerts - Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu> - 2019-10-04 2218.eml
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From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
To: <dochelp@microsoft.com>
CC: <lukeh@padl.com>
Subject: NegoEx alerts
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 22:18:14 -0400
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Is there any Microsoft documentation of NegoEx, apart from
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhu-negoex-04 ?

In that document, there are several definitions related to "alerts":

* MESSAGE_TYPE_ALERT in the MESSAGE_TYPE enumeration
* The ALERT structure
* The ALERT_TYPE_PULSE define
* The ALERT_VERIFY_NO_KEY define
* The ALERT_PULSE structure
* The ALERT_VECTOR structure
* The ALERT_MESSAGE structure

However, those definitions aren't used anywhere in the narrative text of
the document; there are no references to "alert", "pulse", or
"verify_no_key" outside of the definitions. Does Microsoft's NegoEx
implementation make any use of alerts, or are those definitions
vestigial?

Thanks.
Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-07 1317.eml
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From: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
CC: "lukeh@padl.com" <lukeh@padl.com>, support
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Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
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MIME-Version: 1.0

Greg,

I will be researching this and will follow-up soon.

Regards,
Edgar

-----Original Message-----
From: Sreekanth Nadendla <srenaden@microsoft.com>=20
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:21 PM
To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
Subject: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts

Dochelp in Bcc
Casemail in Cc

Hi Greg,
Thank you for your inquiry about Microsoft Open Specifications. We have cre=
ated an incident for investigating this issue. One of the Open specificatio=
ns team member will contact you shortly.

Regards,
Sreekanth Nadendla
Microsoft Windows Open Specifications

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:18 PM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help <dochelp@microsoft.com>
Cc: lukeh@padl.com
Subject: NegoEx alerts

Is there any Microsoft documentation of NegoEx, apart from
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i=
etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zhu-negoex-04&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cedgaro%40microsof=
t.com%7C845e994f88d84184960208d7494310d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47=
%7C1%7C0%7C637058424704003544&amp;sdata=3Dure2%2F6CCUKQc98C68tQMFTjdJkbUPl6=
%2FYKGQdUfZvFk%3D&amp;reserved=3D0 ?

In that document, there are several definitions related to "alerts":

* MESSAGE_TYPE_ALERT in the MESSAGE_TYPE enumeration
* The ALERT structure
* The ALERT_TYPE_PULSE define
* The ALERT_VERIFY_NO_KEY define
* The ALERT_PULSE structure
* The ALERT_VECTOR structure
* The ALERT_MESSAGE structure

However, those definitions aren't used anywhere in the narrative text of th=
e document; there are no references to "alert", "pulse", or "verify_no_key"=
outside of the definitions. Does Microsoft's NegoEx implementation make a=
ny use of alerts, or are those definitions vestigial?

Thanks.
Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-15 1134.eml
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From: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
CC: "lukeh@padl.com" <lukeh@padl.com>, support
<support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
Thread-Topic: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
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To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-23 1125.eml

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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-23 1306.eml

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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-24 1131.eml
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From: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
To: Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com>, Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
CC: support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
Thread-Topic: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu> - 2019-10-23 1144.eml
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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
To: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
CC: "lukeh@padl.com" <lukeh@padl.com>, support
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MIME-Version: 1.0

Thank you for describing how alerts appear to be used in the code. I do
have a remaining point of confusion. You wrote "It also sends the alert
to the client indicating that it doesn���t have a completed session
security, which causes the client to resend a verify message on the
later leg." Wouldn't the client send another verify message anyway? In
our other thread, I asked if (when the mech makes keys available early)
the exchange goes AP_REQUEST/VERIFY, CHALLENGE/VERIFY,
AP_REQUEST/VERIFY, CHALLENGE/VERIFY, or just AP_REQUEST/VERIFY,
CHALLENGE/VERIFY, AP_REQUEST, CHALLENGE, and you said the exchange ends
with AP_REQUEST/VERIFY, CHALLENGE/VERIFY, implying that endpoints
continue sending verify messages with each mech token.

I do not believe NegoEx currently has any adoption outside of
Microsoft's Kerberos implementation. I am currently revising an
implementation of NegoEx which Luke wrote in 2011, with the hope of
including it in an upcoming MIT krb5 release. The primary motivation is
to enable interoperation with pku2u and with third-party SSPs which have
been written for Windows. (My vague understanding is that Windows makes
it complicated for SSPs to be advertised directly under SPNEGO, so they
tend to be negotiated via NegoEx.)

On 10/23/19 11:25 AM, Edgar Olougouna wrote:
> Greg,
> We cannot be entirely certain of the intended purpose of this alert message type, as the expired Internet Draft is the only document, I could find on this. And as you noticed, the document does not have any narrative text on the topic, nor any defined processing logic.
> After conversing with some of our security developers, and reviewing the source code, it looks like the alert message happens if a NegoEx package on one peer thinks it���s done and has a session key while the other side disagrees. We are not entirely clear on whether this can happen with any authentication protocol we have under NegoEx.
> It appears the basic logic is that the client sends what it thinks is a final authentication message, and thinking that it is done it also sends the verify message. The server, however, has some correctable error, such as a time skew, and replies to the client with an error asking the client to retry. It also sends the alert to the client indicating that it doesn���t have a completed session security, which causes the client to resend a verify message on the later leg.
> The authors of this expired draft have all moved on to pasture new, albeit inside Microsoft. Some of our security developers do not have a glorious assessment of NegoEx design, it might be hard to get folks onboard to get any work done regarding the draft.
> In any case, out of curiosity, are you aware of any process to submit an amendment to an IETF internet draft? Would it be like creating a new version of the draft?
> What is the real status of this NegoEx protocol in the field in general? I don���t know whether we have any data on the adoption of the NegoEx regarding how prevalent it is amongst non-Windows implementations of authentication packages.
> Maybe you could start a conversation by emailing the authors of the draft and take it from there. The email addresses are available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-negoex/
>
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edgar Olougouna
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 2:59 PM
> To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>
> Greg,
> I am still working on this. Thank you for your patience.
>
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edgar Olougouna
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 10:35 AM
> To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>
> Greg,
> Thank you for these additional questions on VERIFY. I am investigating the ALERT related question as well. I will follow-up soon.
>
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:41 AM
> To: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
> Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>
> I have some additional questions about NegoEx, pertaining to VERIFY messages.
>
> * Can a VERIFY message be included in the first initiator NegoEx token, if the generation of the optimistic mech token makes a NegoEx key available?
>
> * Can a VERIFY message be included the first acceptor NegoEx token, if the optimistic mech token is successfully accepted and makes a NegoEx key available?
>
> * Once a VERIFY message is generated by either side, are additional VERIFY messages constructed as further NegoEx tokens are created, or is only one sent? Does it matter if the first VERIFY message was generated for the optimistic mech, if a different mech winds up being negotiated?
>
> Also, if the optimistic mech is one-legged (meaning, like krb5 without mutual auth, the whole mechanism protocol is just a single initiator token), how can the initiator determine on its second step whether its optimistic token was accepted or ignored by the acceptor?
>
> On 10/7/19 1:17 PM, Edgar Olougouna wrote:
>> Greg,
>>
>> I will be researching this and will follow-up soon.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Edgar
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sreekanth Nadendla <srenaden@microsoft.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:21 PM
>> To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
>> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
>> Subject: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>>
>> Dochelp in Bcc
>> Casemail in Cc
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>> Thank you for your inquiry about Microsoft Open Specifications. We have created an incident for investigating this issue. One of the Open specifications team member will contact you shortly.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sreekanth Nadendla
>> Microsoft Windows Open Specifications
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:18 PM
>> To: Interoperability Documentation Help <dochelp@microsoft.com>
>> Cc: lukeh@padl.com
>> Subject: NegoEx alerts
>>
>> Is there any Microsoft documentation of NegoEx, apart from
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zhu-negoex-04&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cedgaro%40microsoft.com%7Cb9ce8fcddf074754808408d7517dbf41%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637067472837783982&amp;sdata=jgUjKHRdmqXaqVumMPpYGCPeSnhEzxSvxXVcfUEmBeE%3D&amp;reserved=0 ?
>>
>> In that document, there are several definitions related to "alerts":
>>
>> * MESSAGE_TYPE_ALERT in the MESSAGE_TYPE enumeration
>> * The ALERT structure
>> * The ALERT_TYPE_PULSE define
>> * The ALERT_VERIFY_NO_KEY define
>> * The ALERT_PULSE structure
>> * The ALERT_VECTOR structure
>> * The ALERT_MESSAGE structure
>>
>> However, those definitions aren't used anywhere in the narrative text of the document; there are no references to "alert", "pulse", or "verify_no_key" outside of the definitions. Does Microsoft's NegoEx implementation make any use of alerts, or are those definitions vestigial?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu> - 2019-10-23 1216.eml
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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
To: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
CC: "lukeh@padl.com" <lukeh@padl.com>, support
<support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
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MIME-Version: 1.0

I forgot to answer about the process of amending an IETF draft.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ is the submission tool.
draft-zhu-negoex-04 would not change, but draft-zhu-negoex-05 could be
submitted, or draft-someoneelse-negoex-01 could be submitted with the
metadata that it supersedes draft-zhu-negoex-04. There is a process for
changing authors which requires approval from one of the prior authors
(they get an email link).

Internet draft documents are often created from an XML format using a
tool called xml2rfc. Unfortunately draft-zhu-negoex does not appear to
have an XML version on file (it would appear as an "xml" link alongside
"txt" and "pdf" at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhu-negoex-04) so
producing a basis version in XML might be difficult.

On 10/23/19 11:25 AM, Edgar Olougouna wrote:
> Greg,
> We cannot be entirely certain of the intended purpose of this alert message type, as the expired Internet Draft is the only document, I could find on this. And as you noticed, the document does not have any narrative text on the topic, nor any defined processing logic.
> After conversing with some of our security developers, and reviewing the source code, it looks like the alert message happens if a NegoEx package on one peer thinks it���s done and has a session key while the other side disagrees. We are not entirely clear on whether this can happen with any authentication protocol we have under NegoEx.
> It appears the basic logic is that the client sends what it thinks is a final authentication message, and thinking that it is done it also sends the verify message. The server, however, has some correctable error, such as a time skew, and replies to the client with an error asking the client to retry. It also sends the alert to the client indicating that it doesn���t have a completed session security, which causes the client to resend a verify message on the later leg.
> The authors of this expired draft have all moved on to pasture new, albeit inside Microsoft. Some of our security developers do not have a glorious assessment of NegoEx design, it might be hard to get folks onboard to get any work done regarding the draft.
> In any case, out of curiosity, are you aware of any process to submit an amendment to an IETF internet draft? Would it be like creating a new version of the draft?
> What is the real status of this NegoEx protocol in the field in general? I don���t know whether we have any data on the adoption of the NegoEx regarding how prevalent it is amongst non-Windows implementations of authentication packages.
> Maybe you could start a conversation by emailing the authors of the draft and take it from there. The email addresses are available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-negoex/
>
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edgar Olougouna
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 2:59 PM
> To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>
> Greg,
> I am still working on this. Thank you for your patience.
>
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edgar Olougouna
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 10:35 AM
> To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>
> Greg,
> Thank you for these additional questions on VERIFY. I am investigating the ALERT related question as well. I will follow-up soon.
>
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:41 AM
> To: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
> Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>
> I have some additional questions about NegoEx, pertaining to VERIFY messages.
>
> * Can a VERIFY message be included in the first initiator NegoEx token, if the generation of the optimistic mech token makes a NegoEx key available?
>
> * Can a VERIFY message be included the first acceptor NegoEx token, if the optimistic mech token is successfully accepted and makes a NegoEx key available?
>
> * Once a VERIFY message is generated by either side, are additional VERIFY messages constructed as further NegoEx tokens are created, or is only one sent? Does it matter if the first VERIFY message was generated for the optimistic mech, if a different mech winds up being negotiated?
>
> Also, if the optimistic mech is one-legged (meaning, like krb5 without mutual auth, the whole mechanism protocol is just a single initiator token), how can the initiator determine on its second step whether its optimistic token was accepted or ignored by the acceptor?
>
> On 10/7/19 1:17 PM, Edgar Olougouna wrote:
>> Greg,
>>
>> I will be researching this and will follow-up soon.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Edgar
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sreekanth Nadendla <srenaden@microsoft.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:21 PM
>> To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
>> Cc: lukeh@padl.com; support <support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
>> Subject: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
>>
>> Dochelp in Bcc
>> Casemail in Cc
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>> Thank you for your inquiry about Microsoft Open Specifications. We have created an incident for investigating this issue. One of the Open specifications team member will contact you shortly.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sreekanth Nadendla
>> Microsoft Windows Open Specifications
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 10:18 PM
>> To: Interoperability Documentation Help <dochelp@microsoft.com>
>> Cc: lukeh@padl.com
>> Subject: NegoEx alerts
>>
>> Is there any Microsoft documentation of NegoEx, apart from
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zhu-negoex-04&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cedgaro%40microsoft.com%7Cb9ce8fcddf074754808408d7517dbf41%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637067472837783982&amp;sdata=jgUjKHRdmqXaqVumMPpYGCPeSnhEzxSvxXVcfUEmBeE%3D&amp;reserved=0 ?
>>
>> In that document, there are several definitions related to "alerts":
>>
>> * MESSAGE_TYPE_ALERT in the MESSAGE_TYPE enumeration
>> * The ALERT structure
>> * The ALERT_TYPE_PULSE define
>> * The ALERT_VERIFY_NO_KEY define
>> * The ALERT_PULSE structure
>> * The ALERT_VECTOR structure
>> * The ALERT_MESSAGE structure
>>
>> However, those definitions aren't used anywhere in the narrative text of the document; there are no references to "alert", "pulse", or "verify_no_key" outside of the definitions. Does Microsoft's NegoEx implementation make any use of alerts, or are those definitions vestigial?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com> - 2019-10-23 2013.eml
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Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:13:51 +1100
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Cc: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>,
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> On 24 Oct 2019, at 2:44 am, Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu> wrote:
>=20
> been written for Windows. (My vague understanding is that Windows =
makes
> it complicated for SSPs to be advertised directly under SPNEGO, so =
they
> tend to be negotiated via NegoEx.)

Yes, from Windows 8, it=E2=80=99s not possible for an SSP to advertise =
as both SPNEGO and NegoEx, and also there are some limitations to =
advertising it under SPNEGO (you need to place it in front of NTLM for =
example). So it can be useful from an interop perspective.

Cheers,
Luke=

--Apple-Mail=_4A99ADCC-47B9-411A-B4BA-D346F2F60216
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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></=
head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-b=
reak: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 24 Oct 2019, at 2:44 am, Greg Hudso=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ghudson@mit.edu" class=3D"">ghudson@mit.edu</a>&gt;=
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px=
; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; lette=
r-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: non=
e; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""=
>been written for Windows. &nbsp;(My vague understanding is that Windows ma=
kes</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; f=
ont-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:=
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-=
transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-strok=
e-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color=
: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal=
; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; t=
ext-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norm=
al; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: non=
e; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">it complicated for =
SSPs to be advertised directly under SPNEGO, so they</span><br style=3D"car=
et-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style=
: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: n=
ormal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-spa=
ce: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decorat=
ion: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-famil=
y: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: norma=
l; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-ind=
ent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -we=
bkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: i=
nline !important;" class=3D"">tend to be negotiated via NegoEx.)</span></di=
v></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">Yes, from Windows 8, it=
=E2=80=99s not possible for an SSP to advertise as both SPNEGO and NegoEx, =
and also there are some limitations to advertising it under SPNEGO (you nee=
d to place it in front of NTLM for example). So it can be useful from an in=
terop perspective.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"=
">Cheers,</div><div class=3D"">Luke</div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_4A99ADCC-47B9-411A-B4BA-D346F2F60216--
Subject: Re: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts - Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com> - 2019-10-25 0054.eml
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Subject: RE: 119100524000153 NegoEx alerts
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BTW, this email from Paul Miller back in 2010 sheds some light as to why =
NegoEx is preferable to SPNEGO on the Windows side. His advice turned =
out to be correct.

> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: "Paul Miller (NT)" <paumil@microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: SSP question
> Date: 21 August 2010 at 03:43:33 AEST
> To: Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com>
> Cc: Michiko Short <michikos@microsoft.com>, Larry Zhu =
<lzhu@exchange.microsoft.com>, Sam Hartman =
<hartmans@painless-security.com>
>=20
> NegoExts is strongly preferred for new negotiable packages as it is =
much easier to work with and was designed to be extensible.
>=20
> It is technically possibly to put packages directly under Negotiate by =
having them expose the SECPKG_FLAG_NEGOTIABLE capability in their =
package info, but this is much more difficult to implement correctly as =
the Negotiate fallback logic is very sensitive to the packages present, =
and packages that are directly negotiable have additional constraints.
>=20
> Paul J. Miller
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Howard [mailto:lukeh@padl.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:57 AM
> To: Paul Miller (NT)
> Cc: Michiko Short; Larry Zhu; Sam Hartman
> Subject: Re: SSP question
>=20
> Thanks. Finally, does Negotiate advertise new SSPs or does one need =
NegoExts?
>=20
> -- Luke

--Apple-Mail=_71CB364D-F6D4-4FE8-8E25-6093BC1A5062
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; lin=
e-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">BTW, this email from Paul Miller ba=
ck in 2010 sheds some light as to why NegoEx is preferable to SPNEGO on the=
Windows side. His advice turned out to be correct.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Begin forwa=
rded message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div style=3D"ma=
rgin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" cl=
ass=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, H=
elvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">F=
rom: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&quot;Paul Miller (NT)&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:paumil@microsoft.com" class=3D"">paumil@microsoft.com</a>&=
gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right:=
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font=
-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:=
rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: </b></span><span sty=
le=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-ser=
if;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">RE: SSP question</b><br class=3D""></span></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; ma=
rgin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font=
, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=
=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-sy=
stem-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">21 August 201=
0 at 03:43:33 AEST<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px=
; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><spa=
n style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: </b></span=
><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica=
, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Luke Howard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeh@padl.com"=
class=3D"">lukeh@padl.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D=
"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"=
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue=
, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"=
">Cc: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica=
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Michiko Short &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:michikos@microsoft.com" class=3D"">michikos@microsoft.com</a>&gt;, Larry=
Zhu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lzhu@exchange.microsoft.com" class=3D"">lzhu@exc=
hange.microsoft.com</a>&gt;, Sam Hartman &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hartmans@pai=
nless-security.com" class=3D"">hartmans@painless-security.com</a>&gt;<br cl=
ass=3D""></span></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">NegoEx=
ts is strongly preferred for new negotiable packages as it is much easier t=
o work with and was designed to be extensible.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""=
>It is technically possibly to put packages directly under Negotiate by hav=
ing them expose the SECPKG_FLAG_NEGOTIABLE capability in their package info=
, but this is much more difficult to implement correctly as the Negotiate f=
allback logic is very sensitive to the packages present, and packages that =
are directly negotiable have additional constraints.<br class=3D""><br clas=
s=3D"">Paul J. Miller<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-----Original Message---=
--<br class=3D"">From: Luke Howard [<a href=3D"mailto:lukeh@padl.com" class=
=3D"">mailto:lukeh@padl.com</a>] <br class=3D"">Sent: Friday, August 20, 20=
10 1:57 AM<br class=3D"">To: Paul Miller (NT)<br class=3D"">Cc: Michiko Sho=
rt; Larry Zhu; Sam Hartman<br class=3D"">Subject: Re: SSP question<br class=
=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks. Finally, does Negotiate advertise new SSPs or =
does one need NegoExts?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- Luke</div></div></b=
lockquote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_71CB364D-F6D4-4FE8-8E25-6093BC1A5062--
Subject: Re: Additional questions about NegoEx, pertaining to VERIFY messages [119101521001637 119101521001649 119101521001656] - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-17 1253.eml
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From: Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com>
To: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
CC: "lukeh@padl.com" <lukeh@padl.com>, support
<support@mail.support.microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Additional questions about NegoEx, pertaining to VERIFY messages
[119101521001637 119101521001649 119101521001656]
Thread-Topic: Additional questions about NegoEx, pertaining to VERIFY messages
[119101521001637 119101521001649 119101521001656]
Thread-Index: AdWFCycRKKOVhEAySb+QtX7Kmr+NCA==
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 16:53:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: Additional questions about NegoEx, pertaining to VERIFY messages [119101521001637 119101521001649 119101521001656] - Edgar Olougouna <edgaro@microsoft.com> - 2019-10-18 1455.eml

Message body is not shown because it is too large.

Subject: git commit
From: ghudson@mit.edu
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Implement NegoEx

Implement draft-zhu-negoex. Mechanisms supporting the NegoEx GSS
extensions will be negotiated only through NegoEx, unless they assert
the GSS_C_MA_NEGOEX_AND_SPNEGO mech attribute, in which case they may
also be negotiated directly via SPNEGO.

https://github.com/krb5/krb5/commit/c2ca2f26eaf817a6a7ed42257c380437ab802bd9
Author: Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com>
Committer: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
Commit: c2ca2f26eaf817a6a7ed42257c380437ab802bd9
Branch: master
doc/plugindev/gssapi.rst | 25 +
src/include/k5-trace.h | 5 +
src/lib/gssapi/generic/gssapi_ext.h | 45 ++
src/lib/gssapi/generic/gssapi_generic.c | 129 +++---
src/lib/gssapi/libgssapi_krb5.exports | 3 +
src/lib/gssapi/mechglue/Makefile.in | 4 +
src/lib/gssapi/mechglue/deps | 17 +-
src/lib/gssapi/mechglue/g_initialize.c | 4 +
src/lib/gssapi/mechglue/g_negoex.c | 237 +++++++++
src/lib/gssapi/mechglue/mglueP.h | 31 ++
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/Makefile.in | 7 +-
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/deps | 36 ++-
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/gssapiP_negoex.h | 210 ++++++++
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/gssapiP_spnego.h | 41 ++-
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/negoex_ctx.c | 785 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/negoex_trace.c | 121 +++++
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/negoex_util.c | 812 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
src/lib/gssapi/spnego/spnego_mech.c | 407 ++++++++++------
18 files changed, 2691 insertions(+), 228 deletions(-)
From: ghudson@mit.edu
Subject: git commit

Add NegoEx tests

Add a mock NegoEx-only GSS module, a test program which establishes a
SPNEGO context, and a Python script to exercise a variety of NegoEx
negotiation scenarios.

https://github.com/krb5/krb5/commit/02b3171380d5683212ae1deae67a8c6cd19e290a
Author: Greg Hudson <ghudson@mit.edu>
Commit: 02b3171380d5683212ae1deae67a8c6cd19e290a
Branch: master
.gitignore | 1 +
src/Makefile.in | 1 +
src/configure.ac | 1 +
src/plugins/gssapi/negoextest/Makefile.in | 20 ++
src/plugins/gssapi/negoextest/deps | 15 +
.../gssapi/negoextest/gss_negoextest.exports | 13 +
src/plugins/gssapi/negoextest/main.c | 340 ++++++++++++++++++++
src/tests/gssapi/Makefile.in | 47 ++--
src/tests/gssapi/deps | 4 +
src/tests/gssapi/t_context.c | 60 ++++
src/tests/gssapi/t_negoex.py | 142 ++++++++
11 files changed, 623 insertions(+), 21 deletions(-)